    God worked a long time to get me to see the seriousness of what He had taught me concerning salvation. I knew it was serious in the church, as a whole, but I didn't realize how close the problem was to me, personally.
    The Lord gave me a dream in which it was shown to me that I would minister in a church, on a certain street, in a certain town and after it was over, I would minister to a person of the female gender. I thought this was interesting so I went to that town and drove that street and found that there was no church on it, anywhere. I thought, "Well, it must be a symbolic dream," and returned home. I soon forgot about the dream. About six months later, some friends asked me to speak at a church they were starting, and yes, it was on that street!
    That excited me because then I remembered the dream. I didn't turn them down. I shared at that church some things the Lord had shown me about end times; and for lack of something else, I shared some of what the Lord had revealed to me about salvation. Soon the service ended. I waited around for this female person to appear somehow, for me to minister to. Soon the room was almost empty and I was thinking, "I don't understand this. The first part of the dream came true. Where's the female?" I then gathered my stuff up and headed out to my car. I was in the parking lot when I heard a sobbing voice beside me saying, "Roy, I don't know if I'm saved."

    Stunned at who it was I asked, "What do you mean?"
    Crying, she told me again, "I don't know if I'm saved or not."

    I was really beside myself because this lady was in the prayer group I had started attending. She had been in the church where I grew up and numerous times we had prayed together. Here she was, out of control, sobbing like a child. Knowing what God had taught me, I asked her if she believed that Jesus died for her sins and that He is seated at the right hand of God? She answered with a sobbing, "Yes."
    I said, "You are saved!" Her sobbing stopped instantly at her confession to me.
    I had actually forgotten about the dream during the ordeal with this person, but on the way home I realized she was the female in the dream. I talked to my mother about this lady since they were acquainted and had gone places together. I was searching for understanding of this situation. I learned that she would go forward quite frequently at Full Gospel meetings to get saved, usually crying. I knew then that God was revealing to me that this person wasn't really saved until I drew a profession of faith from her. That's why the sobbing stopped instantly at the moment of confession. She had been lead through "repeat after me prayers of confession" over and over, with no results.
    This woman knew something was very wrong in her spirit. I knew she wasn't an outgoing person but of a quiet nature. I was learning how big, and how close to me, this problem is concerning the salvation of God's believers. The Lord was slowly putting pressure on me to let my old ideas die, mainly, "It really can't be this serious. "I had wanted to deny the seriousness of the problem in the churches simply because I didn't want to deal with it.

God said, "Religion!"

    One time a pastor was telling me about a man who had come to him to talk about Jesus, the Bible, and God. This pastor was very good at leading someone to Jesus with scripture. They talked at length, and the pastor tried to lead him through a salvation prayer. Each time he tried, the man would have an excuse not to pray. The man told the pastor that he didn't want nor was he ready to marry Jesus. The pastor was very upset that he couldn't get him to go through the sinners prayer and get saved. Notice that you can see the man believed in Jesus and knew who He really is because of what he said.
    The pastor was very concerned that he had failed, enough to ask God why. Why had he failed to get him saved? The pastor was relating all of this to me when he started telling me a dream that he had.
    The dream was about the pastor's family. They where raised in the Catholic faith. In the dream one of his family members had sinned, and therefore, this member wasn't allowed to attend mass because of his sin. It was basically a very simple dream. I asked the pastor what the dream indicated to him. He said,"That's religion." "Religion" was the single word that described the message in the dream.
    God had answered his prayer with the dream, "a thing" of the Spirit. The pastor wanted to know why he had failed to get the man saved. God's answer was - "Religion." The pastor's religion!
    The pastor could have asked the man anytime during the conversation, even after the man indicated that he didn't want to marry Jesus, this question, "I want to know what you really believe," and drawn a profession of faith from the man. Had that pastor understood he would have gotten around the man's religious ideas that when you get saved you get married to Jesus." Because the pastor believed that repeating a prayer of salvation was the way a person gets saved, his religion had actually stopped it from happening. Symbolically, God revealed it was the pastor's religion in the dream, not the man's problem, because God used the pastors family, and not the man's family, or just any Catholic family. He is a God of truth!
    What can we glean from this experience? First, we need to understand that Jesus can be your savior, your healer, your deliver, or your husband. It's your decision how far you go. When you are saved, He is your savior. If He heals you, He becomes your healer and so on. A Bride becomes centered on Him and intimate. A saved person doesn't have to do this. There is a great difference.
    Second, we can see one insight into how to interpret dreams. God usually uses something we can understand if we've a mind to meditate, seeking His understanding of Spiritual things.
    Third, we can see that God is a God of simple truth, revealing that it was religion, a belief that the prayer of salvation is the way a person becomes saved, that prohibited the man from being saved. ( The prayer of salvation, in the form that we know it, is not in Scripture.)
    Religion was written all over the situation, both in the pastor and the man. That's why God could sum it up in one word: "religion." He wasn't being critical, just truthful... Religion.

A Little Boy with a Crusty Spirit!

In a scene in the night on Feb. 23, 1999, the Lord took me into the church where I grew up. He did this because He knows that I know what I learned there, as a young man. He knows of my love for the people. He knows how to prick my heart. In one section of the scenes in this church I was shown a little boy who had a crusty spirit. In the vision, this little boy was small enough that I took him and sat him on my knee to talk to him. This gives us an idea about how young a person can be to be able to profess Jesus as Savior. I know from the scene that there is actually a little boy there who believes but is not saved, or born again! Because this took place in educational surroundings in the vision I know the problem is much bigger than just one little boy and the problem is lack of knowledge!
Seeing the little boy's crusty spirit reminded me of an experience I had when God was teaching me the seriousness of the situation in the churches concerning salvation. I realized I had not written about this experience except in my very first book. You have heard me say that there are pastors who preach and teach about Jesus, but who are not saved. You have heard me declare that people can experience God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit and not be born again. It is my hope, after reading this experience and listening to my thoughts, that you will understand and see a clearer picture of how far this cuts into the church world.

The Experience
I was invited to a meeting of Gideons, International. That night the Lord revealed to me that I was to attend but He didn't say why. In this meeting one of the speakers gave his testimony relating to how he had found the Lord by picking up a Gideon Bible in a motel room and reading the book of John, over and over. At that time he was miraculously delivered from alcohol, and it was obvious that he had experienced the Lord in a big way.

    When the meeting was over, my wife and I were interested in welcoming his wife to this country because she was new here. She was so bubbly and full of life. However, she had not learned much English so we couldn't communicate well. I then turned from her to acknowledge her husband, the speaker. I shook his hand and spoke to him but as I did this a strange thing happened! I'm not even sure what I said because I found myself seeing inside the man, beyond his flesh! I had never experienced this before. I remember thinking, as this was happening, "This man is not what he seems!" Taken back by what I saw I quickly moved across the room thinking about what I had seen. I could only describe it as "a great sadness" inside the man and I knew the Lord had revealed, "This man was not as he seems!" I relayed what had happened to my wife on the way home, and was wondering why. That night the Lord showed me the man who was the speaker. I saw his spirit - - it was dead. So dead - - that it was crusty, as if from the beginning of time (The Garden of Eden!).
    I was awakened from the scene, suddenly faced with the reason the Lord had sent me to the meeting. It was to teach me more about the seriousness of the situation concerning the unsaved "unborn-again spirits" of people who believe! I immediately prayed, "Lord, I understand but how do I tell them?" The Lord said, "Tell them, it's like when I delivered My people from the Egyptians."
    You see, God delivered Israel from the Egyptians, but very few of them came into the promised land. This Gideon speaker had experienced the Lord, was delivered from alcohol, became a believer, but hadn't obtained the promise of being born again in his spirit, (saved)! I knew he had simply never made a personal declaration of His faith to another man.
    How is it that any man could talk and testify of Jesus' delivering power, preach and teach about Him, and not be exercising the proper declaration of his faith? I feel I need to share my own struggle with understanding why testifying of the Lord's deliverance and healing to another person doesn't do it. This man who testified at the Gideon's meeting, whom everyone believed was saved and born again, spoke about the Lord and gave Him all the Glory for delivering him from alcohol. He talked a lot about Jesus and he used scripture! I knew why he wasn't born again, but there was something nagging at me and I knew I didn't understand all of the "why's" of the situation.
   I have always been honest with you, the reader, and I must testify that even after the Lord convinced me about how someone gets saved, I had always leaned to the idea that someone telling a neighbor, etc., that the Lord had healed them was a profession of faith that worked. If you have read the article "What Must We Confess About Christ" you know I learned differently!
    The following is part of how I learned differently and I share it here, not only because it is pertinent to the speaker at the Gideon meeting, but also because the Lord said something to me to get me to open my eyes to a clearer picture of the "why's." I hope when you read His answer to me that it does the same for you.
    One day I finally asked the Lord specifically why testifying of His (the Lord's) deliverance and healing to another person doesn't do it? The Lord said, "But you could say that of anyone!"
    This is when I realized that (for instance) Elijah raised the dead and Jesus raised the dead. So to talk about, preach, and teach, "Jesus raised the dead," is not saying Jesus is greater than Elijah! So when we say, "Jesus healed me," we are not declaring He is anything greater than other men. Healing took place through other men in the Bible and is still taking place through and because of men in this day. Many men have been called Jesus or Lord on earth, so a person's own confession must contain something about the Cross and that God raised His Son from the dead. This establishes the true Jesus as being different from other men who have been called Jesus or Lord.
    This is why the man who testified about Jesus delivering Him from alcohol that night in the hotel room still had an "unborn-again" spirit. He, by the way, had also testified that Jesus saved him that night. He did - from alcohol! But not as far as salvation unto eternal life, Jesus did that many years ago on the cross. He actually saved this whole world of people but few have entered into the eternal covenant provided and established by Him at the cross. That great entering into the contract (covenant) by us is done by our establishing our personal belief, to another person, that Jesus is the only Savior of the world and God raised Him from the dead - separating this Jesus from every other man who has ever lived. It's through and by Him alone, for we all have sinned and come short!
    I hope this testimony of seeing a man's crusty "unborn-again" spirit in this Gideon situation will stick with you the rest of your life. I hope you see, or have started to see that the seriousness of this problem is even among preachers and leaders of the church! We, as a people, do a lot of assuming and have a great tendency to forget the serious things God teaches us. I still find myself assuming that people are saved, especially pastors and big names. God reminds me of how serious this is with scenes like the one of the little boy in the church where I was raised. There are thousands and thousands of little boys and girls in this situation, in churches everywhere. There are believing preachers unsaved in the churches of the world. This is why God said, "Never go into a church and assume the pastor is saved!

Is your name written?

Is your name written? Are your relative's names written? Are your friend's names written? I had been trying to get people to realize there was a problem in what the church is doing concerning the mechanics of salvation. I had made a tape and sent it out to some people with no apparent results. A preacher said I was too dogmatic. I was tired of struggling so I decided to get on with my life and let go of this problem that's in all churches.

The night following my decision to quit the Lord took me to a church in a night vision. The Lord and I were standing in the back, watching this woman at the pulpit. She was giving assignments to church members, in alphabetical order, out of a book. She would read a name and then assign them to a state. "John Doe, you are to go to Texas," etc. She was just finishing up the"M's" when she realized her best friend's name hadn't come up. She started back through the book, saying, "I know her name is here. I know her name is here," over and over. She then went and got another woman to help her look for the name in an older, larger book that was to the side of the room. Then they were both frantically searching, saying, "I know her name is here," over and over. At this point the Lord took me to the pulpit to see the book. The book was printed in two columns, the name in one column and the assignment in the other. I saw with my own eyes that almost half the names were missing but the assignments were all there.

    This scene of the names missing impregnated my mind and when I emerged from the vision I knew the book was a book of believers. The Lord was talking about His believers. He had assignments for all believers but almost half of them weren't ever saved. They weren't saved - like the church thinks they are.
    I told the Lord I was sorry for ever wanting to quit. He had laid a truth on me and I knew it was His judgement, not mine. Little did I know He would later give me the exact figure. On September 21, 1996, the Lord revealed to me that at that moment 48% of the people who the church says are saved - are not saved.
    48% are being turned back at the Straight Gate, headed to hell because of the lack of knowledge and the traditions and doctrines of men! This amounts to a Holocaust in the church! Do leaders have a A Minute To Spare? Do we?

Simplicity

This is a recent e-mail testimony where God verified what He has taught us here at Take His Heart concerning eternal salvation.

Hi Roy!

“… Just to let you know that my father received the Lord through your questions on the teachings, which we received last March. I asked him the questions, and he weakly replied, "Yes". Six weeks later, he passed into heaven quickly. It took only about 5 minutes and he was absent from this world....just as I had asked the Lord for so many times.

“And as I had asked the Lord so many times, "Why is he living so long?" (96 years old)...the answer, ‘So that you, XXXXX, would ask the right question, and that your Dad, a believer, might enter in through the straight gate’.

“So, thank-you Roy, for your ministry. ….
I pray that my descendants can be on the right path, and enter in through the narrow gate.”

Much love in Jesus!
XXXXX XXXXXXXXX
. . . . . . . .

We have included a few examples of how to ask the right question. They can be asked anywhere, anytime. I had an Evangelist who works in Africa ask me if he asked the right question of a crowd of 10,000 people in a meeting, would they be saved? The answer is yes, if they answered “yes” and that yes came from their heart. Only God knows the heart!

Become the Lord’s liaison by drawing confessions from people.

Question examples:

Do you believe Jesus took your sins on the cross and that God raised Him from the Dead? Yes or No?

Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God and that God raised Him from the Dead?
Yes or No?

Do you believe Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father and that God raised Him from the Dead? Yes or No?

Do you believe Jesus was God manifest in the flesh?
Yes or No?

Do you believe Jesus was the sacrifice of God to cover our sins?
Yes or No?

Any one of these examples can work!

The key is that you establish your belief to another person on earth, fulfilling how covenant works as explained in Take His Heart materials. It’s as Jesus explained when He revealed the keys to the Kingdom. You establish your belief to another person on earth and Jesus as the mediator establishes it in heaven.

Some say it’s too simple for eternal salvation to be just in our declaration (confession) to another person. Remember what God says is in our confession? Review What is in a True Confession?
It will help all of us understand the

Simplicity that is in Christ Jesus!

Dutch PDF of Simplicity

Rightly Dividing the Word Saved

PDF of Salvation book - book cover
Includes: Rightly Dividing the Word Saved.

You can e-mail us at: Take His Heart Ministries

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Take His Heart
PO Box 532
Wellington, Kansas 67152 U.S.A.